This new genealogists the think it over high one Nicholas’ spouse Clementia try integrated here while the, less than regular circumstances, she would not be mentioned. When Susanna from the specific afterwards big date obtained out over an alternate guardian, the fresh wife of the guardian was not stated.
This will imply that King John invested a bit indeed there and the potential for an enthusiastic amorous liaison with Clementia is available
What follows the following is a principle complex by the some eminent genealogists, but it’s fair to say that the newest results is actually hotly competitive!
That it idea results in a delightful and you will interested ‘twist’ throughout the tale off Joanna, which may focus fans away from HBD!
On top, there is absolutely nothing to suggest people connection between the hostage, Susanna regarding Wales and you will Clementia, spouse from Nicholas de Verdun. Although not, the feel of some genealogists having international hostages, for example young ones, could have been that they was indeed commonly placed having relatives, if any was in fact offered.
Jumping toward 1236, there’s an entrance throughout the Tewkesbury annals and this applies to Joanna’s mommy since the “King Clemencie!” It reads to some extent:
Today, we know the mother out of Joanna is named Clementia (Clemence?
In this situation the brand new monk try obviously indulging into the gothic legalism. Just before her passing, Joanna is legitimised because of the Pope. On the basis of you to definitely legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk plainly got it up on himself to raise Joanna’s mommy to the position off King, since if their mother was Queen John’s partner! It is true but not, that King John and you will Clementia were never partnered. From the speaing frankly about Joanna’s mother as the “Queen” Clementia, the fresh new monk whom filed Joanna’s passing try demonstrating his high regard having Joanna, yet not trying to replace the correct affairs.
As for the identity from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she is actually the fresh child out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. One to genealogist takes into account they significant that Clementia acclaimed away from Wiltshire as the they have realized that Queen John had an effective cost of a Siem reap mail order bride accessory so you’re able to you to definitely state, they as the house regarding his best allies, brand new Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found your identity ‘Clementia’ is really rare certainly one of English noblewomen from the months. In one single desk out-of ladies’ labels that has been amassed, there were merely a couple of situations of the label “Clementia” of a total of 1407 women in the fresh test! The reality that someone titled Clementia might be for the Susanna is recognized as significant.
Thus! Evidence is actually effective, but not definitive, one in the 1228, Susanna, due to the fact a good hostage, got out to new proper care of their maternal grandma, now spouse out-of Nicholas de- Verdun!!
The Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ keep one Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 when you look at the Gwynnedd, Wales and passed away c. 1259 for the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife for the 1230 along with a few students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, created 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.
Without a doubt, you can find counter objections to all or any this supposition! King John got of many mistresses and possibly possibly seven illegitimate youngsters. Mom away from Joanna would-have-been created circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was born circa 1191 (14 years of age during the time of their marriage to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the newest identified genuine child regarding Nicholas de Verdun and his awesome partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia was the mother out-of Joanna, she would have their unique later 30’s, early 40’s when giving birth in order to Rohese! Maybe not impossible, particular state, but not very likely.